Alternative voting explained.... Good for Canada?

[s_lone]

It seems to me that our first past the post voting system doesn't adequately serve the population of this country. What do you think of alternative voting? What effect would this have in Canada?

YouTube - The Alternative Vote Explained

[triedit]

f'n brilliant. I'd vote for that guy no matter what party he was in

[dazed&confused]

Ineresting concept but unworkable. Alternative voting presumes a voter will go to the box & make multiple choices. You have a block of voters lets say 48% mark one candidate only (all the same candidate). He/she is first past the post and elected to the house in a Westminister system. However in the alternative there are others against him/her in the majaority of cases. In that system #2 gets 26% of the vote with a second choice of #3 (75%) & #4 (15%). We look at #3 who receives 14% of the vote with and as second choice #2 (20%) & #4 (85%). Poor #4 runs last at 12% with as second choice #3 gets (90%) & #2 with (10%).
Now lets see what we have #1 @48, #2 @29.3 #3 @44.3% & #4 @ 30.4. Under the alternative vote #2 is on the shelf. The reality is we are now looking @ a 142 total rather than a 100 total when only looking at 1st choice (remember #1's voters had no second choice)
Now we are at third choices as mentioned earlier #1's voters had only one choice marked so we can ignore them.
Many of #2's voters were either 2 or 3 so therefore only 50% of those make a third choice which is #4 (95%) & #1 (5%)
#3's voters are more pragmatic & 80% of them have a third choice #4 (80%) #1(5%) & #2(15%)
#4 voters are the most pragamtic all have a third choice #3 (40%) #1(2%) 2(48%)
At third choice we are now looking at a 178 total rather than just the 100. So here goes
#1 is at 49.45% #3 is at 49.1% & #4 is at 51.71% of ballots marked as 1st 2nd or 3rd choice.
So here we have #4 with a plurality of over 50% when in fact #4 was the chioce of no more than 1 in 8 when the vaters went to the ballot box. Altenarive voting looks to me as way of filling the house with Stephan Dion's or unqualified populists.
You can take exception to the math but I think the conclusion is solid alternative voting is unworkable.

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

I think your math is wrong (dazed and/or confused perhaps?). Under you're scenario #1 would stay at 48.5% until the end. Persumably as a canidate is eliminated the 2nd or 3rd choices of its supporters would be tallied and included in the new totals.

Under your extreme scenaro #1 could still win depending on how the #2 and #3 split on the losing canidates. But your scenario is quite unrealistic. #1s voters would be a pretty polarizing canidate not to make it as anybody's #2 or #3 choice. Also #1s voters would not be the brightest not to choose a #2 or #3.

[dazed&confused]

I think your math is wrong (dazed and/or confused perhaps?). Under you're scenario #1 would stay at 48.5% until the end. Persumably as a canidate is eliminated the 2nd or 3rd choices of its supporters would be tallied and included in the new totals.

Under your extreme scenaro #1 could still win depending on how the #2 and #3 split on the losing canidates. But your scenario is quite unrealistic. #1s voters would be a pretty polarizing canidate not to make it as anybody's #2 or #3 choice. Also #1s voters would not be the brightest not to choose a #2 or #3.

As I said you can argue with math, however in Ontario for the Tories to be sure of a seat in 2011 using "alternate voting" their 1st choice vote would have to be somewhere close to 44% (that would give them 44 seats today) whereas the Liberals would need just over 36% (that would be 50 seats today) based on projections. The first past the post projections would be 56 Tory 35 Lib so if you're a Tory I would think should be happy with the existing system at least in Ontario. I didn't do a calculation for the NDP or the Greens.
The 2nd choice top up comes from information by others post 2008 election.

[Mark]

I think its a load of crap.

You vote in your riding. If you don't like voting in that riding. Move to another riding.

[JoeSchmoe]

Proportional representation systems are much more democratic systems than the first past the post system.

Here, you can get a huge majority government with the power to run things as a dictatorship with 40% of the vote. That is just fundementally wrong. We have seen how wrong it was with 13 years of Chretien running the ship. Corruption was commonplace and seems to be an acceptable outcome for Lib supporters, much like the Harper corruption is acceptable to his partisan hacks.

We don't have a hope in hell of changing it. So most of the population will continue to be disenfranchised and un-represented. That's our system. And unless people vote for those who would change it, it will never change.

Just look at Harper's governmental "reform" ideas and how quickly those have dissapeared.... (anyone who says it's cuz of a minority gov't is fooling themselves.... or full of partisan BS).

[s_lone]

I think its a load of crap.

You vote in your riding. If you don't like voting in that riding. Move to another riding.

Can you explain in non scatological words how this system could be bad for Canada?

[Coddfish]

It's funny how you guys were talking about alternate voting. A while ago, I was reading an article on Sympatico that asked if Canadians should be forced to vote.

Should Canadians be forced to vote? | Sympatico.ca News

At first, I actually agreed to the question. Since voting turnout was so low, I actually thought that this was a good idea.

It wasn't until I read some of the comments that I finally realized something. I realized that what I was thinking was not only undemocratic, but just plain stupid...in some ways, though.

Personally, if there is another way to vote, like this alternative, then I don't see why not. If it gets more people voting, then more power to them.

However, I do still find it unacceptable that voting turnout is so low. I can understand with some folks if they don't like the main choices, I can understand that.

But, if you don't like the main choices, then why not vote for an independent party? If you do that, then you can show that you have a voice...a voice that can stick it to the big 3...or 4 with the Bloc.

I'm sorry, but if you don't vote, you have no right to complain about the gov't. Not only that, but you're just pissing away a freedom that not many people get to have. Would you like to live in a single party state like China or Vietnam?

God, I was even getting excited today when I did the vote. And this was for the first time, too!

[Coddfish]

Oh, and with the alternative in mind, I hope that it includes some re-education for some of the masses.

Today, when we went to vote, one gentlemen said that he was going to be voting for Harper...

You might want to go to Alberta for that...