Hypocracies of the Religious Right

**Riley** · 09-12-2008, 05:50 PM

lol...I have the most fun debating when I take the left wing side, and I'm left wing on this.

Okay, when the issue of homosexuality is addressed by the Religious Right, the common answer is:

We don't believe they choose the attraction/inclination, and the sin is not the attraction or thoughts, but is the act itself. Through the will of God you can be 'healed' (and turned straight), or if not you need to live a life of celibacy.

Now, as a Gay Christian (yes those exist too), here is where I get uber-annoyed by evangelicals, the christian right, etc.

God created/designed us all in his image, with a plan. If same sex attraction isn't a choice, then we know God designed us that way.

Isn't it more against God, to preach that we should deny and try to change the way he made us???

Isn't the religious right saying God made a mistake in us, and we need to work on fixing the mistake.

It's ridiculous. Also the amount of cherry picking from the Old Testament by right wing Christians makes my head spin.

The common one is that Leviticus verse that says it's an abomination. Did you know that the same chapter says that eating shrimp is an abomination? I guess we should round up and protest all the shrimp eaters in world, eh? Sanction those damn Japanese shrimp eh?

Anyways, I'm open to this discussion...we have some socons (social conservatives) on here who want to go at it? :laugh:

**Gerryh** · 09-12-2008, 08:20 PM

First day back and you're baiting gfpb already.

**Imp** · 09-12-2008, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gerryh

First day back and you're baiting gfpb already.

Somethings never change..

**Sparrow** · 09-12-2008, 09:19 PM

I say live and let live. We are all God's creatures no matter how we are and if you don't believe in God it comes down to the same, live and let live.

**Inviolable** · 09-13-2008, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Riley

lol...I have the most fun debating when I take the left wing side, and I'm left wing on this.

Okay, when the issue of homosexuality is addressed by the Religious Right, the common answer is:

We don't believe they choose the attraction/inclination, and the sin is not the attraction or thoughts, but is the act itself. Through the will of God you can be 'healed' (and turned straight), or if not you need to live a life of celibacy.

Now, as a Gay Christian (yes those exist too), here is where I get uber-annoyed by evangelicals, the christian right, etc.

God created/designed us all in his image, with a plan. If same sex attraction isn't a choice, then we know God designed us that way.

Isn't it more against God, to preach that we should deny and try to change the way he made us???

Isn't the religious right saying God made a mistake in us, and we need to work on fixing the mistake.

It's ridiculous. Also the amount of cherry picking from the Old Testament by right wing Christians makes my head spin.

The common one is that Leviticus verse that says it's an abomination. Did you know that the same chapter says that eating shrimp is an abomination? I guess we should round up and protest all the shrimp eaters in world, eh? Sanction those damn Japanese shrimp eh?

Anyways, I'm open to this discussion...we have some socons (social conservatives) on here who want to go at it? :laugh:

O.K. I'm new here and looking for a debate. I have some experience in this type of debate.
But I'm going to tell you before we start the debate, up front. I really could care less if you're gay or not. I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home and I don't care who you fall in love with. I'm a live and let live kinda Christian.
But I'm also not gay so I might be able to give you some honest insight as to the thought process behind the standard Christian thinking.

You up for that?

**Sal** · 09-13-2008, 10:03 AM

I don't think mankind has a fucking clue what God wants or does not want.

Mankind has "used" God to justify every horrific action he has ever done.

The only clearly understood command in the bible is to love another as one would love oneself.

And that too is something most are incapable of because unless one has truly learnt to love oneself, one is incapable of loving another. What passes for love is a travesty in many cases.

With that said, we are sexual beings. What two adults choose to do with each other is no one's business and not for another mortal to judge. Therefore it is irrelevant what another thinks of same sex unions.

And as for God, I doubt he/she/it could care less.

If there is humour at the end, it will be that we shall be made to judge ourselves as we have judged others.

The sweet irony of that. However, my God would not be that cruel. Damn.

**Inviolable** · 09-13-2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Sal

I don't think mankind has a fucking clue what God wants or does not want.

Mankind has "used" God to justify every horrific action he has ever done.

The only clearly understood command in the bible is to love another as one would love oneself.

And that too is something most are incapable of because unless one has truly learnt to love oneself, one is incapable of loving another. What passes for love is a travesty in many cases.

With that said, we are sexual beings. What two adults choose to do with each other is no one's business and not for another mortal to judge. Therefore it is irrelevant what another thinks of same sex unions.

And as for God, I doubt he/she/it could care less.

If there is humour at the end, it will be that we shall be made to judge ourselves as we have judged others.

The sweet irony of that. However, my God would not be that cruel. Damn.

Hey Sal! :D

I think I have seen this post before some where. hehe

It is a good post.

I also think that as far as the bible is concerned Christians see things a little more black and white.
There are personal issues that have been pointed out pretty clearly in the bible. Christians take it to heart.
Maybe this would make for a good thread if we could come to understand why that is.
Examine how one Christian at least, "me" sees the world and compares it to the bible.
But to do that we'd also have to give a point of reference on a single subject that is strongly talked about.
I think homosexuality is a really good reference point.
We can chat about both sides of the debate and maybe even see how people draw their conclusions on the topic.

From the looks of it, you got 2 crazy people willing to have just such a conversation. Me and that other guy. :)

**Frogger** · 09-13-2008, 11:57 AM

Riley,

The members of the religious right are not being hypocrites. To be a hypocrite they would have to not believe what they are preaching and saying. They honestly believe what they are saying about gays so, while you and I may totally disagree with their viewpoint it is wrong to call them hypocrites.

It has always been my contention that I don't know the thought processes of God any more than a sheep knows my thought processes. Since that is the case I never try to second guess God.

I have no problem with gays being members of my church. I have n problem with gays being members of my circle of friends. I have no problem with gays being members of my family. If I did have a problem though, I would not be a hypocrite. I would just be a homophobe. I would only be a hypocrite if I lied and said I had no problem with gays while I actually tried to exclude them from my circle.

**Sal** · 09-13-2008, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Inviolable

Hey Sal! :D

I think I have seen this post before some where. hehe

It is a good post.

Hey Inviolable...that's the problem when new "oldies" show up..... they already know what cards we are holding...

I also think that as far as the bible is concerned Christians see things a little more black and white.

Well the far right maybe. But I do think there are many Christians who are fairly open-minded about their lack of ability to understand God's mind except through the imperfection of their own. :D

There are personal issues that have been pointed out pretty clearly in the bible. Christians take it to heart.

And to be honest, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It only becomes a bad thing when it is imposed on another and used to judge and persecute.

Maybe this would make for a good thread if we could come to understand why that is.

We shall see how it goes...

Examine how one Christian at least, "me" sees the world and compares it to the bible.

Yeah, I'd forgotten your stance on things but now as I recall, you are a right handed "believer" with a left-handed or softer idea of what is best for others.

But to do that we'd also have to give a point of reference on a single subject that is strongly talked about.
I think homosexuality is a really good reference point.
We can chat about both sides of the debate and maybe even see how people draw their conclusions on the topic.

Yup, this sounds like the Inviolable I remember........ it's all coming back to me now...

From the looks of it, you got 2 crazy people willing to have just such a conversation. Me and that other guy. :)

You can count me in on the willing and crazy...

**Sal** · 09-13-2008, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Frogger

Riley,

The members of the religious right are not being hypocrites. To be a hypocrite they would have to not believe what they are preaching and saying. They honestly believe what they are saying about gays so, while you and I may totally disagree with their viewpoint it is wrong to call them hypocrites.

It has always been my contention that I don't know the thought processes of God any more than a sheep knows my thought processes. Since that is the case I never try to second guess God.

I have no problem with gays being members of my church. I have n problem with gays being members of my circle of friends. I have no problem with gays being members of my family. If I did have a problem though, I would not be a hypocrite. I would just be a homophobe. I would only be a hypocrite if I lied and said I had no problem with gays while I actually tried to exclude them from my circle.

Good points.