Christian and Islamic comparison

[Mark]

Has anyone ever seen the film MR FROST with David Goldblum.

It is about a man who claims to be the devil who comes back to earth and is sent to a sanitarium after committing horrific mass murder and taping it.

There is a scene where he is talking to his psychologist and she asks him why if he is really the devil has he come out in the open rather than lurking in the shadows as satan is known to do.

His reply was something like this. "Good, Evil there is a delicate balance and you humans are screwing that up. Explaining everything with psychology and science. There used to be a struggle."

That is not verbatum, but it was a chilling scene which had a grain of truth.

This is not the scene, but have a look[MEDIA]http://youtube.com/watch?v=OHkwOg3GogI[/MEDIA]

[selfactivated]

Questioning is the only defense against "evil"

[Doc Dred]

I don't know if you were really paying attention Doc. I attended a residential boys school run by the Salesians up until the last couple of years of high school and the priests were always very clear that evil exists solely as a result of God's commitment to the free will of man. Evil exists not because God created it specifically, but rather that man chooses to embrace it.

See....my point is here right off the bat.....the free will dodge comes in play ...RIGHT AWAY!!!!

Do you honestly think i did noit have this discussion....

Evil exists not because God created it specifically, but rather that man chooses to embrace it

If it wasn't created it couldn't be embraced.


There is a fundemental difference in the God of Christians and the God of Muslims.....

The christians...no christian priest... well i have to say catholic for sure...will ever admit God created evil...

you end up in this free will thing....


priceless G priceless....thanks for the post.

how can you embrace something that is not part of the creation....

How can you view evil as not being placed into creation....

You see the catholics will not admit to God being in league with Lucifer.....thats the next step in the pardigm of Catholicism...

If you willfully create evil.....hahahahahahahaha....gotta love the weakest link in the figuring.....

i think what pissed off the priests the most back on ole Marymount High....was my absolute fearless conviction of this fact....and the abilty to smile at their dilemna.......

[Doc Dred]

I see your point as well here G..and it's excellent when explored.

Evil exists not because God created it specifically, but rather that man chooses to embrace it

what you are saying is until man embraces evil it doesn't exist....

or it is dormant....

but the fact that we got free will....and you place evil at it's throat so to speak....it's hammering away at it waiting for the mooch to break down and commit evil thereby bringing it into cause and effect time space........


see where i'm going.....



this is why i don;t buy into the fabricated generic Christian theme park they teach us we are living in.....


i have other ideas.....

[grainfedprairieboy]

See....my point is here right off the bat.....the free will dodge comes in play ...RIGHT AWAY!!!!

Do you honestly think i did noit have this discussion....

Your point was that the Catholic priests who taught you did not respond to your questions regarding the source of evil and were frustrated by your stunning intellect in catching them in a theological conundrum.

My response was to indicate that this is not the standard response by a single priest let alone an entire faculty. Whether you agree with their beliefs or not, priests are highly trained studying for years and a young Doc struggling through high school will hardly trip them up enmass on such a common question.

If it wasn't created it couldn't be embraced.

Christians believe that God created everything within the universe. Because God created freewill man is responsible for how he conducts himself. If you take God's rock and hand it knowingly to someone to crush another's skull - that is ostensibly viewed as evil. If you take same rock and give it to someone hungry to crack a coconut that would likely be regarded as good.

God created the environment for you to function, laid out the parameters of how you were to function, but never said He will make you function. As you are not forced by Him in your choices He cannot be held responsible for them, good or evil, only you can be.

There is a fundemental difference in the God of Christians and the God of Muslims.....

It is the same God.

The christians...no christian priest... well i have to say catholic for sure...will ever admit God created evil...

This seems to be a very difficult concept for you.

How can you view evil as not being placed into creation....

Your focusing way too hard on seeking a scapegoat. There is no evil you can imagine that God could have said here is where I draw the line because then freewill is encumbered.

You see the catholics will not admit to God being in league with Lucifer.....thats the next step in the pardigm of Catholicism...

If you willfully create evil.....hahahahahahahaha....gotta love the weakest link in the figuring.....

God is not in league with Satan. God created Satan and Satan exercised freewill and disappointed God. Perhaps your mother could help shed some insight on this comment for you.

i think what pissed off the priests the most back on ole Marymount High....was my absolute fearless conviction of this fact....and the abilty to smile at their dilemna.......

Perhaps they were not "pissed" but rather 'perplexed' and I think you may wish to change "fearless" to 'ignorant'

[Doc Dred]

agendas agendas G your agenda at winning argument has left you just posting ...uhhh cause you can....

Your point was that the Catholic priests who taught you did not respond to your questions regarding the source of evil and were frustrated by your stunning intellect in catching them in a theological conundrum.

How did you derive this from what i wrote?
It's strictly your opinion based on wishing i wrote something along those lines so this actually makes you look like you undestand something i said...LOL!!!
It' isn't there....lol

My response was to indicate that this is not the standard response by a single priest let alone an entire faculty. Whether you agree with their beliefs or not, priests are highly trained studying for years and a young Doc struggling through high school will hardly trip them up enmass on such a common question.

Were you there? Again your agenda has you posting completelty out of order and topic....but it does give you this gruff mystique.....



Christians believe that God created everything within the universe. Because God created freewill man is responsible for how he conducts himself. If you take God's rock and hand it knowingly to someone to crush another's skull - that is ostensibly viewed as evil. If you take same rock and give it to someone hungry to crack a coconut that would likely be regarded as good.

Freewill is all about choice. I am refering to good and evil as being synonmonous to positive and negative energies. all throughout christion theology you have the ultimate battle between good and evil.Your very choice of useing freewill in discusion is based on chosing from something in existance.What drives the person to choose to smash the skull and what drives the person to make food with the rock?

God created the environment for you to function, laid out the parameters of how you were to function, but never said He will make you function. As you are not forced by Him in your choices He cannot be held responsible for them, good or evil, only you can be.

Ok here is where I step off for you are talking like there is a God in man's image and are talking about God in man's image.....i just can't go there all the way



It is the same God.

No it is all about poetry about that belief in that God and the poetry collides



This seems to be a very difficult concept for you.

Originally Posted by Doc Dred
The christians...no christian priest... well i have to say catholic for sure...will ever admit God created evil...I'm trying to be honest in who i actually talked too. There being so many denominations quite possibly one would toss out everything i discussed back in high school

Your focusing way too hard on seeking a scapegoat. There is no evil you can imagine that God could have said here is where I draw the line because then freewill is encumbered.

I'm not looking for a scapegoat in this case i take it you are referring to good and evil being created by an almighty biblical god who created everything.

You are calling it a scapegoat to deflect what i am saying all along......Catholics refuse to say God created evil...muslims admit god created evil....



It is difficult to further the discussion once one decides to use the words freewill as a means to distance God from being the creator of evil. In this creationist biblical theory evil is part of His creation......



For me i'm discusing biblical theory i don't believe in....

For you it's saying god did not invent evil but he invented everything else .
And he invented freewill and somehow this non invented evil ,everyone gets to choose wether to act on it ...There by creating an event labeled evil.....


all in ththis thing what did you call it"environment for you to function, laid out the parameters of how you were to function



God is not in league with Satan. God created Satan and Satan exercised freewill and disappointed God. Perhaps your mother could help shed some insight on this comment for you.

Your words "Christians believe that God created everything within the universe." Now as we know the Christian almighty knows all....

What exactly was the ingredient he placed in Satan to become Satan...Satan being the incarnation of evil....yes Satan also gets the freewill package...but again freewill to use against what?

What are you useing freewill against.....the choice ultimatly is one to create evil or create good.....if you plant one of God's little seeds you get trees



Perhaps they were not "pissed" but rather 'perplexed' and I think you may wish to change "fearless" to 'ignorant'


oh they were pissed alright........lol

One of them ,the head priest of the school....took my schedule and penciled me in for a friday talk...i showed up early...he wasn't there...It was his thing to never lock his door and we were free to go in his office and wait for him there.....I waited he never showed...

On Monday he was coming down the hall with a bunch of kids in tow.....I thought he had an appointment or oddly was out giving the last rites on friday maybe.......I approached him, said hi father...he asked where i was on friday...i said at his office waiting for him......Which by the way friends of mine saw me hanging about the vicinity and asked why.......

anywho he Scowled at me and said he was there and asked again where i was....I said i was there father....he said "Are you calling me a lier?"...i knew in front of the kids me calling him a lier was pointless and actually could well be a trap.....

My reply was " I know where i was on friday and you know where you were on friday....which is all the proof i need for my decision"...


He said "If you are not going to tell the truth i am not going to wadte my time trying to help you"

I asked if i could be exused.....he nodded....that was the end of all discussion....

ya see G he couldn't answer the big questions nor did he want to confront the obvious.....

you may have your opinion of what i was .....been there ...got the rewards...

[TheDeadManLives]

First off, stop the mudslinging folks.

Secondly because of the similarities and differences of the faiths a lot of people are leaving Christianity and going to alternate religions such as Islam. Islam is similar to Catholicism YET people convert to it for many reasons. I have heard of the following:

1) The people are African American so they convert to the religion of their roots.

2) They fell in love with a significant other and converted

3) the religion they were in did not explain a concept and went to Islam

4) People feel closer to God with their prayers and such in Islam.

These are good valid reasons. Question is is when will people see for themselves converting is probably a risky thing to do. Would I convert to a different relgion based on what I just mentioned in the post? Maybe? Hinduism is better for me for how they pray and what they believe in is more for intriquing.

TheDeadManLives

[selfactivated]

Excellent points.